L173 or L236?

[SilverDub]

The fish are in the UK, fit and well. I hope you like them PM me any questions.











And for comparison
https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/hyp...6_en_1000.html
https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/hyp...3-_en_763.html

[evers]

hallo....
für mich sehen sie wie sehr schön gezeichnete L 399 aus.
lg karsten

[blandinn]

Für mich auch, schöne L 399/L 400

[Bluesmaker]

Hello ?

Fantastic looking fishes! There is a big discussion about the L-Numbers you suggest and you can never say if it is a 173, 236 or just good looking L399/L400. A lot of people wonder if L173 and 236 even exist.

The one with the dots looks 50% like my L174s. Interesting variations.Can you say how long they are and where they are from?

There are at least two looking like what we call 'Mopskopf'. The head hasen't got the right shape.

Manuel

[SilverDub]

Sorry I dont understand German, but I guess L399 is your feedback.

Honestly I have about 6 suggestions of L classification for them starting at L173, 236, 399, 400, 345, Lower Xingu. It has also been suggested many times that this could be a new race of previously unknown Hypans - which is very possible, there is a lot of uncharted water in that region and the locals know better than anyone whats there. My head is spinning with the debate and maybe I'll regret the time and money invested in getting them to Europe. I had hoped there would be positive interest in them and several groups available for serious breeders.

It took 7 months to source these fish and the supplier was tasked with sourcing L173, he said no problem I;ve had them before and they went to Malaysia. So very excitedly we thought we are on to something. That was in June 2009 and finally the fish arrived in Europe last week. There was a previous batch due before hand but one of the middle men got made an offer he could receive and the batch went to Japan (apparently).

The fish were caught approximately 20hrs down river from the mouth of the Xingu/Iriri, they were in clear water very deep and very fast current. It took the fisherman 3 days to catch them as the conditions were very dangerous. From the Iriri they travelled by boat to down river and across to Itaituba on the Rio Tapajos from there they were transferred to my supplier. It took approximately 6 -8 weeks from capture to export. Over the last 9 months I have built up a very good relationship with the supplier and have no reason to doubt his word. He has told me since that he has NO intention of going through that again and will not go looking for this specie for me again. So this is probably the first and last shipment of these fish.

I think people will just have to trust there instincts and not be disturbed my the opinions of many, they have cost L173 money and i have also paid for the time it took and the trips my contact made around South America to source them. 399/400s wouldnt have cost me as much as these did, I also have large L46s from him and they are sensibly priced. These are double the UK price of wild H Zebra.

I can ship/deliver these to Germany/Holland if anyone is seriously interested then please PM me to discuss further.

[SilverDub]

A few more pictures for your deliberation:

[Bluesmaker]

See ist this way: No matter what L-Number these fishes have, they are fantastic looking and I guess you will find someone who will buy it. Unfortunately often the serious breeders don't have a lot of money. Take care that they don't became only something to show off.

[SilverDub]

Very wise words Manuel, the L system is sadly flawed and the amazon is a vast area of water that western man has barely dipped his feet in let alone explored....Even if there are hundreds of explorers they could barely touch the surface of whats there discovered or not.

Also take into account that the fisherman are very protective of precious catch locations. So it is very difficult to know for sure. If my wife would permit me I would take a 6 month trip to brazil with a camera, snorkel and some nets.

[andi]

Hi,
if i read it correctly, your supplier has broken the brazilan laws. He has exported fishes from the genus Hypancistrus, but the brazialian government says it isn' t allowed to export these fish.

I think it isn't a good think to present such thing in the web, 'cause we all hope the brazilians publish a new positivlist with species that are allowed to export. But if they read often that everyone exports species illegal, maybe their main problem isn't to develop a new list but rather to avoid such illegal and criminal acts.

It isn't important if i like the actual positivlist, but the brazilian says this is the corrct way - and its their country. Who else, if not the brazilian government is the relevant authority to decide this things - YOU?!

I think it isn't ok to present here in the public your illegal imported fish!

Bye Andi

[SilverDub]

Thanks Andi,

I to share your concerns about the Brazilian government. My fear is that dont care enough about there responsibility to the natural world. If they did why would let the planets lungs be destroyed on a such free basis? When the dam projects are complete there will be n Lower Xingu it will be more like marshland if it is lucky.

The ban wont last long anyway, it is effecting the gdp to much it didn't take long for them to reverse there decision on black rays, once they saw the demand and prices the far east were prepared to pay!!!! Money and corruption is the language in South America and sooner later it will prevail once more.

I haven't broken any EU laws, I checked thoroughly with DEFRA about what I was doing and they almost encouraged me to do, I was offered the chance to source buy this specie, they were going to be caught and sold any waI just thought if I could safe guard there future in the UK and I was hoping across europe then maybe it would actually go some way to sepcies preservation.

But maybe I am wasting my time and yours.

Administrater - can you please delete this thread?